From directorJon S. Bairdand screenwriterJeff Pope, the biographical dramedyStan & Olliefollows the great comedy team of Stan Laurel (Steve Coogan) and Oliver Hardy (John C. Reilly), as they set out on a variety hall tour of Britain in 1953. With their golden era behind them and an uncertain future, the two funnymen quickly reconnect with their adoring fans and the tour becomes a hit, but that doesn’t dissolve the tension between them or cure Oliver’s failing health, leaving the two men wondering just how much they mean to each other.
During this 1-on-1 phone interview with Collider, filmmaker Jon S. Baird talked about how the script forStan & Olliecame his way, being a huge Laurel & Hardy fan, the importance of exploring the relationship dynamic with their wives, the perfect combination of Steve Coogan and John C. Reilly, why it was so emotional to see them in character for the first time, how appendicitis delayed the start of production, howMartin Scorsese’s advice impacted the film, why he ended up taking some TV projects in between films, and developing a project withPeter Dinklagethat he hopes to get into production soon.
Collider: How did this script originally come your way, and was there immediate interest, or did you have to consider whether or not to take on this story?
JON S. BAIRD: I had just done a movie, calledFilth, which is the polar opposite toStan & Ollie, in so many different ways. I’d just found a new agent, and he had sent me the script and said, “This just came through for your consideration. I don’t think it’s your kind of thing.” Obviously, he didn’t know me that well, at that point, because it really was my kind of thing. When I first read it, I cried, at the end, which doesn’t really happen, at all, with any scripts that I read. I was a huge Laurel & Hardy fan, and I was purposely looking for something that was very different from the last movie. So, all of those things aligned. The script was very different, at that point, and we worked on it a lot to get it into the final shape, but the essence of the story is still there. It’s a love story with these two guys who are facing the twilight of their career. That’s really how it came around. And then, there was the responsibility of making sure that all of the Laurel & Hardy fans like it, as well as the surviving family members, but that fear or pressure drove me on and gave me the adrenaline burst to get it done.
Having been a fan of Laurel & Hardy, had you ever thought about finding a story to tell, so that you could make a movie about them before, or was this the first time it had even occurred to you?
BAIRD: It really was the first time it occurred to me. I watched them, as a kid, but I hadn’t watched any of their films for a very long time. I couldn’t have told you anything about Laurel & Hardy, in terms of where they were from or anything about their personal life. It was a real discovery for me. And when I was reading it, I was thinking, “There could be a lot more people like me out there who loved the films, but really didn’t know anything about them.” That’s when I thought, “If I’m interested, there has to be a lot more people with a similar viewpoint.” So, I thought it was worth making a film about. To be honest, I couldn’t believe that the story hadn’t been told before. We sat there like, “Why wasn’t it done?” It’s probably because the rights were so difficult to tie up. But, what attracted me to it was the fact it was a love story.
Getting to see the relationships Stan and Oliver had with their wives, and that their wives had with each other, is such an interesting aspect of the story.
BAIRD: Yeah, I think the wives are as strong as Stan and Ollie, in the film. They add a completely different dimension to it. The majority of the humor in the film doesn’t come from Stan and Ollie, it comes from the wives’ dynamic. A lot of the drama and emotion comes from Stan and Ollie, but the levity, the humor and the strength comes from Nina [Arianda] and Shirley [Henderson], who play the wives. I grew up with a lot of very strong female role models, and I always like to write my female characters a lot more real than a lot of movies portray those supporting characters. That was something really important to me, as well. I had these two fantastic actors who elevated their parts and made what was on the page a lot funnier when it came to shooting.
It’s a great way to get some insight into who the two men were, apart from each other.
BAIRD: Yeah, absolutely. We talked about it a long time, and we talked with Nina and Shirley, individually, about where they came from, why they loved these guys, and what they were like themselves. It’s not just about who Laurel and Hardy were, but who Lucille and Ida were, and what was driving them. That informed us a lot, as well. When you’ve got intelligent actors, it really makes you look a lot better than you are.
Was the film always calledStan & Ollie?
BAIRD: It was always calledStan & Ollie. We debated naming itLaurel & Hardy, but that was quickly poo-pooed because people would think it’s a completely different film. It was always gonna be about the off screen persona. The original title, from the very first draft I had received, wasStan & Ollie. It never, ever changed from there.
There was a bit of a delay in getting into production because you had to get everyone’s schedules to line up. Were you ever worried that it might not actually happen?
BAIRD: Yeah, absolutely. I think that happens with every film. Every one of my films has been pushed back, for one reason or another, usually for cast availability or financing falling through. So, I was used to it, but I was getting nervous. You’re always nervous until the first day on set. We actually pushed this back at the last stage. We were about to start shooting, and two days before we started shooting, we were rehearsing with Steve and John in my office and I started to have stomach cramps, which turned into severe pains. A couple of hours later, I had been rushed into the hospital and told I had appendicitis, so we postponed the shoot for a week. It gave them an extra week of bonding and rehearsing the dance moves, so I suppose it worked out in the end, but my appendix was the final delay. I was lying there on this emergency room table, and the doctor said, “It’s your appendix. You’re gonna have to get it out.” And I said, “Well, could you take it out now because I’m shooting in three days’ time.” And he said, “You won’t be shooting in three days’ time.” And he was right. We had to postpone it a week.
A movie like this obviously doesn’t work unless you love the actors together, just as much as you loved Laurel and Hardy together. Were Steve Coogan and John C. Reilly always at the top of your list for these roles?
BAIRD: Yeah. We sat down for a long time and we made lists of who could play each character, and who would play well together. Before we went out to anybody, we ended up with John C. Reilly and Steve Coogan, at the top of each list of who we thought would work best together. We were fortunate that our first choices that we went to, we ended up with, but there was a long process of looking at a lot of different combinations of actors. We ended up saying, “These are the two that we really want. Let’s go with them.” So, we met John and Steve, individually, and they expressed nerves about the responsibility of playing the heroes, but thankfully, we managed to talk them into doing it, and we never looked back. They were our first choices.
You’ve talked about how there were tears the first time they stepped out in full costume and prosthetics on set. What was that moment like, and why was it so emotional?
BAIRD: It was actually during the camera test. I had seen them in costume and make-up, but I’d never seen everything together, and the crew certainly hadn’t seen anything. So, we set up the camera test, and we got Steve and John, in full costume and make-up, to come through for the very first time, and I was gonna study the crew’s reaction. Literally, there were people whose mouths were open and they were gasping. It was like two ghosts walking through the door. It was like bringing these two people back from the dead. It was an incredible moment. There were some members of the crew that were massive Laurel & Hardy fans, who actually started crying. It was an incredible experience.
BetweenFilthandStan & Ollie, you directed some television. What led you down that path, and how do film and TV compare for you?
BAIRD: I took television waiting onStan & Ollieto get ready, to keep my hand in the game, and to work with some incredible people, as well. The first TV that I took (Babylon) was something that Danny Boyle produced, and the second thing (Vinyl) was for Martin Scorsese, who I’ve remained very close to and who’s become a real mentor of mine. He advised me on some of the things inStan & Ollie. I was due to startStan & Ollie, and then it got pushed back, so I took another TV job and another TV job. I ended up working with some fantastic people, mainly in the US. I think the big difference is that you get far more control, as a director on a movie set, than you do on episodic television. In episodic television, the writer is the boss, and you’re a hired hand. You just come in and do your thing. You’re treated very well, and then as soon as you’re done, you’re out and the next one is in. That was difficult to get used to. The resources are nice. When you work for big companies, like Showtime or HBO, it’s nice to get huge budgets. OnVinyl, we had incredible budgets on that show, and I was working with some incredible people in New York. But unless you’re running the show, and it’s your show and you’re directing all of the episodes, starting with the pilot, you don’t feel as though it’s your thing, like it is with a movie. You see it differently, as a director in television.
What was the best advice you got from Martin Scorsese, in regard toStan & Ollie?
BAIRD: Really, lens choice, particularly in the opening shot, and how to stage your background on a huge moving piece, and how to keep your actors motivated, over 18 or 19 long takes. It was great. I’ve got his number on speed dial in my phone, and he always answers. He always gives me great advice. It’s incredible. It’s really like a dream come true, working with him.
Is there a current TV series, that you personally really enjoy, that you would love to direct an episode of?
BAIRD: I love what HBO are doing. I’m disappointed that I never got to do anything withGame of Thrones. But having said that, I’m now working with Peter Dinklage on something, and I’ve gotten to know him very well, so hopefully that’ll make up for it. I would have liked to have done something onWestworld. ButVinylwas a great stint for me, working with Mick Jagger, Terence Winter, and Martin Scorsese. I’ve been fortunate that I’ve had a great experience. If TV comes around again, then great, but if it doesn’t, then fine, I’m happy doing movies.
What are you working on with Peter Dinklage?
BAIRD: I’ve written a script that we’re looking at doing. I can’t say too much about it. It’s a comedy-drama that we’re hoping to do next year.
Is that the next thing that you’re hoping to do, or do you have something else that you’re going to work on before that?
BAIRD: There are quite a few things that I’m looking at, it just depends on which one gets ready first. You’re always wise to try to have three or four things that you are working on, for a director, anyway. It’s different for an actor, who can jump between things quicker. As a director, the time investment is a lot more, so you’ve gotta be sure of what’s gonna go, which is why you push three or four up the hill and try to get one up there. So, I have a few things.
