At this year’sToronto International Film Festival, actress, producer, and now directorDakota Johnsonpresented her short filmLoser Babywith writer, star, and good friendTalia Bernstein. Johnson took her experience on the sets of other directors' films — “all different kinds of direction and methods of direction” — and applied it to her own, where she and Bernstein worked with all of their best friends on a short film she never intended to premiere at TIFF.
“I don’t know what we’re doing here, honestly,” Johnson laughs, admitting that their friend andLoser Baby’s producer,Ro Donnelly, submitted the short without either of them knowing. The surprise turned out to be a smart move when the 23-minute queer comedy was accepted and celebrated its world premiere at the festival. Bernstein, who’s penned episodes for popular series likeFresh Off the BoatandGhosts, says she wrote the script about “a very real depiction of gay relationships, and very specifically of gay people in their mid-thirties, where they’re not young and crazy anymore, but they’re not older and have their life figured out.”
Johnson and Bernstein stopped by the Collider media studio at the Cinema Center at MARBL to discuss the film withSteve Weintraub. The duo shares what it was like to improvise on set with their friends, how it felt to find out they were heading to the festival, and what their futures look like as far as directing and acting again. Bernstein talks about working onGhostsandHow I Met Your Mother, and Johnson teases her upcoming projects with Oscar-nomineeCeline SongandMike Covino.
You can watch the conversation in the video above or you can read the full transcript below.
What Is Dakota Johnson’s ‘Loser Baby’?
COLLIDER: I really want to start with congratulations. This is your directorial debut as a short. You’ve done a music video before, but this is your first film. I really want to say congrats. I thought you did a great job, and it’s because you teamed up with [Talia]. No one will have seen [Loser Baby] yet, so how have you guys been describing the film to friends and family?
DAKOTA JOHNSON: Oh god, you take that one. Thank you, by the way. That was nice.
TALIA BERNSTEIN: Thank you for saying that I’m the reason it was really good.
JOHNSON: [Laughs] It’s the truth.
I think it’s a combination of the two. It’s your performance and script and your direction. It’s a combo.
JOHNSON: How would you describe this?
BERNSTEIN: I would say that it is a very real depiction of gay relationships, and very specifically of gay people in their mid-thirties, where they’re not young and crazy anymore, but they’re not older and have their life figured out. They’re sort of in that middle ground. So that was the inspiration for why I wanted to do it — I just wanted to showcase that and showcase real relationships and what they look like, and that they can look all different ways.
JOHNSON: Also, Talia’s an incredible comedy writer. When we read it, it was sort of like a little short, a little piece of her work. Ro [Donnelly] and I, my producing partner, read it, and we were like, “We have to make this,” because it’s so good and so poignant and so special. It also was really perfect to cast all of our best friends in all of these roles. It was great for me because I just got to sit around and tell all my friends what to do for three days.
That’s exactly what I wanted to know. Everyone felt so comfortable together. How was it with casting? Everyone in frame, are they all people that you’re best friends with?
JOHNSON: Yeah.
BERSTEIN: Yeah, basically.
JOHNSON: Yes, and my little sisters are in the background. Some people who work in our office are in the background at the party. It was a family affair, for sure. And because Blake [Lee], who plays Devon, and Talia are best friends, we’re all best friends, they really do have that kind of banter. So, I was able to track them and let them improvise. I know their strengths as comedians, soI felt like I could amplify them in moments where maybe it wasn’t there in the script. And then I had to really rein them in because they’re so stupid.
Dakota Johnson’s ‘Am I OK?’ Completely Nails the Experience of Coming Out
There’s relatable, and then there’s this movie!
When you’re making a short film like this, you need to accomplish so much in such little time. How much before you stepped on set were you rehearsing or blocking, knowing you had a limited schedule to make it?
BERNSTEIN: I remember I went to your house.
JOHNSON: You became an absolute monster. She was like, “I’m a diva. I need a lot of attention.”
BERNSTEIN: That’s right. I started that. That’s how I started.
JOHNSON: “What is my deal? How many points on the back end?”
BERNSTEIN: Exactly. “When it goes and becomes like a roller coaster, how much of that do I get?”
JOHNSON: “When I blow up?”
BERNSTEIN: [Laughs] But no, I went to Dakota’s a week or two before we were going to shoot it, and we went through the scenes one by one. We were sort of just chatting about how we could make it better or shorter and more punchy or whatever. So we did that once or twice before we actually got to set.
JOHNSON: But we didn’t have time to do blocking and proper rehearsals or anything. It was all really free, a lot of improvising. The DP that I work with, Cristina Dunlap, and I have worked together multiple times and have a really shorthand communication, so it flowed really well. A lot of people did us favors because they thought the script was great. So, it was good.
The Title ‘Loser Baby’ Appropriately Came From a Friendly Dig
But the journey was a lengthy one.
How did you come up with the title and how much did you debate calling it something else?
BERSTEIN: Oh my god.
JOHNSON: [Laughs] This is a journey!
BERSTEIN: It was such a journey. It was called something else almost always.
JOHNSON: It was called something else every month.
BERNSTEIN: It was a hot thing between me, Dakota, and Ro. We were sort of just like, “What is this thing?” Then, truly, we were talking a few months ago about this subject matter, andBlake, who plays Devon, was like, “You’re a loser, baby,“and he made fun of me because of what we were talking about. We were all like, “Hold on that. Is that the name of the short?” And that was it.
JOHNSON: But we had lots of titles, and we had to keep going back to the editing house to be like, “It’s actually this now,” or, “Oh, it’s actually this now, and change it to this color,” and “It’s actually this now.”
Dakota Johnson Didn’tIntendto Take Her Directorial Debut to TIFF
“We just made this short to make a short — for fun.”
This is your directorial debut short film. How much did you debate you wanted to be the thing you came out with? Did you think about doing a feature, or were you like, “I really want to start with this?”
JOHNSON: Well, I actually felt likeI just didn’t want anybody else to be directing these peopledoing this thing. I was like, “I know this so well. I know them so well. I love them with all my heart.” I didn’t plan any of it. Also, Ro submitted to Toronto, and we didn’t know.
BERSTEIN: Neither of us.
Wait, what?
JOHNSON: We didn’t know. We just made this short to make a short — for fun. I love directing, and I love making things. I love editing, I love music, I love the whole process. So it was really just for us. Ro submitted it and told us when it had gotten in. So, I don’t know what we’re doing here, honestly.
That’s crazy. Like, I’m just thinking about that. What was that like when Ro said, “Oh, by the way, we’re going to the Toronto Film Festival?”
BERNSTEIN: It was so cool.
JOHNSON: Hilarious.
BERNSTEIN: It was wild. I was like, “What? Withthis?”
JOHNSON: I was like, “Did they make a mistake?”
I’m fascinated by the editing process because it’s where it all comes together. I know it’s a short, but how did the film change in the editing room in ways you didn’t expect?
JOHNSON: In the edit, I found that we had to fill some spaces in order to make the transition of the conversations flow at the party more. So, it was trying to figure out what we could do to create space and time and to show time passing without it taking up too much time because itisa short, and we didn’t want to add a bunch of just bullshit dialogue. So, it was the ability to, while we were shooting, just pick up little things here and there. When I’m acting, we have to do an “exterior establishing shot,” and I’m like, “Why? Why do I have to do an establishing shot?” It’s like my nightmare; I think it’s so lame. But then it makes sense for a viewer to go, “Oh, okay, this is where I am.” So, knowing that, I think just being able to track the passing of time and people getting more and more fucked up throughout the party so that the audience knows, “Okay, this is where I am.”
I love the line, “Wrong and strong.” Talk a little bit about where that came from. Do you remember?
BERNSTEIN: Val improvised that.
JOHNSON: It’s very Talia. She’s very wrong and strong, especially her quads. [Laughs]
Do you want to explain what “wrong and strong” means?
BERNSTEIN: It’s knowing you’re in the wrong and still pressing on with that POV with all your might, is what I think she meant it as.
JOHNSON: Or just, like, arrogant ignorance.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, arrogant ignorance. I think Lizzie, in that moment, isclearlyin the wrong and trying to prove herself right, but just won’t give it up.
JOHNSON: Just like a lot of people in politics these days.
BERNSTEIN: Wow. And just like that.
JOHNSON: “And there she goes.” Goodnight!
Dakota Johnson Declares ‘Loser Baby’ Star Talia Bernstein a Rising Star
“You were so brave and open.”
So, I read, and I could be wrong, that you haven’t done that much acting.
BERNSTEIN: I’ve done none.
JOHNSON: Zero.
What is it like knowing that you’re going to be the star of a short film like this? You go through a lot in the movie — you have a lot of important scenes with your girlfriend, relationships, talking about sex. It’s a big role.
BERNSTEIN: It’s really so wild. Dakota and Ro were both like, “If we make this, youhaveto be in it.” And I was like, “Okay, are we sure?” I think you were even like, “I’m not going to direct it if you’re not in it,” or I made that up.
JOHNSON: But I like it. Keep it. That’s the story now.
BERNSTEIN: [Laughs] But it was wild. I wrote it, obviously, very specifically for me. I don’t think I’ve got the range to go other places, but I loved it. It was so fun. It was very wild. I think the wildest part is people seeing it after. I’m a writer; I could sit back and let things play out and be like, “They said that weird thing,” or, “They’re having sex with their friend in the beginning.” But to be the one doing it is truly wild.
JOHNSON: Yes. The actress who plays Martina Navratilova is Talia’s best friend. They had to make out and have simulated sex, and it was the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. But you were so brave and like open and present and took direction really well, and you were good with continuity. Really, truly a natural. She’s a star.
What were you like the night before the first day of filming?
BERNSTEIN: That’s such a good question. I feel like I was definitely nervous, but I also felt like I was in really good hands at the same time. Blake is one of my best friends, and I knew that being there with him and being in scenes with Jessy [Hodges], Chelsea [Frei], and all the people who were in it, I knewit was going to be a very kind room to act in. But then also, having Dakota there was so nice. You were like the kindest person with me, where whatever note she came in with, it was just very soft. You were like, “And maybe on this one, we do this?”
JOHNSON: No, I never would say “we.”
BERNSTEIN: “And maybewedo this together?”
JOHNSON: No, you’re a monster. There’s no fucking way. “And maybe on this one we…”
BERNSTEIN: Speaking the royal “we” a lot.
So you never said “we?”
JOHNSON: No, I’d be like, “Talia,no.Do this!”
I’ve spoken to a lot of actors and they talk about how one of the key secrets to a great director is how you give direction, whether or not it’s in front of the crew or you pull someone aside. What have you learned as an actor that you wanted to ensure you brought to set when you’re directing someone else?
JOHNSON: I’ve had all different kinds of direction and methods of direction. I’ve had the whispers in the ear, and I’ve had the yelling from behind the camera — that’s horrible. So, I’ve had it all. What I loved on this was being able to, because I know them so well, go, “Can you do that thing that you do sometimes?” Like when she throws the chicken into the fire, or when she goes, “I’m all set, girly.” That’s very Talia to call everyone “girly.” So,because I knew them so well, it was very specific.But then also, having worked on comedies and on a comedy show, there were moments where we’d let the camera roll, and I’d call out ideas of improvisation from behind the camera. It was mostly that they were in it, and they were being themselves, but not really — they were being these characters with pepperings of themselves in it. I was able to sort of just map out where we were headed.
Is Dakota Johnson Directing Again Soon?
I definitely want to know if, after this, you’ve gotten a taste for the director’s chair and if you’re reading other scripts, if you’re thinking about doing a feature. What are your plans as a director?
JOHNSON: I feel like I have so much to learn in that department. The times when I felt confident that I could do something and make it to my standards, I feel, like with this, “Oh no, I can do that because I know it backwards and forwards.” But I don’t know.I’d be open to directing more if it feels really authentic and true to me.I’m not going to force it, and I am nowhere near as well-versed in that department. I’m always reading scripts, and sometimes it sparks different aspects of me, like if I want to act in it or produce it or sometimes direct. So, I don’t know. TBD.
Now that you’ve done this, what is your reaction when you see other people who have starred, produced, written, and directed? Do you have more awe that someone can do that? Do you feel like that’s something you’re able to do in the future? Because I’m blown away when someone is the star, wrote, directed, and produced. All of those are singularly incredibly difficult jobs.
JOHNSON: I think it’s wonderful. I totally understand the mechanics of a brain that can do that. I get it. I haven’t necessarily found the thing, written the thing, or done the thing that fits for me yet, but I am in such admiration of people who are able to do that. I definitely understand from an actor’s perspective, because I’ve spent so much time on set, watching everybody and listening, just studying people. So,I totally get creating a whole world in your own heart and mindand wanting to bring that to life.
Where You’ve Seen Talia Bernstein’s Other Work Before
I read that you’ve written episodes ofGhostsand also worked onHow I Met Your Motherearly in your career. I loved that show. What was that experience like for you? What did you learn from it that you took with you to working onGhostsand other projects?
BERNSTEIN: I was just an assistant onHow I Met Your Mother, but it was pretty fun because it was a show that I watched and loved. I learned about the industry in general — I was 22 when I had that job — but every job I’ve had subsequently has given me a piece of something to take to the next job.
What aboutGhosts? That’s also a very popular show.
BERNSTEIN: It’s great. It’s in its fourth season. It’s amazing. We shoot in Montreal. It’s a really fun show to work on. I’ve been on it since the beginning, and it’s just a delight.
You’ve written, I want to say, four episodes?
BERNSTEIN: I think that’s right. I wrote one each season and then I shared one. I really should know this answer more specifically.
How does it work in the writers' room in terms of getting an episode? Are you assigned, or do you come up with an idea, and then they say, “Oh, you should flesh that out?”
BERNSTEIN: All shows are run a little bit differently, but on our show, we come up with an idea for an episode, and if people are starting to like it, and we’re having fun pitching various scenes that could take place in it, maybe a room will go off and really try to flesh out what that episode looks like. Usually, at that point, it will get assigned so that someone can shepherd it into the next phase. Then someone’s sent off to write the script, it comes back into the room, it’s edited, and then we read it, and then it’s edited again. Eventually, it’ll be shot.
Now that you’ve had a taste of being in front of the camera, is it something you’re interested in pursuing further, like writing yourself a role?
BERNSTEIN: Yes — sort of. For the right thing, definitely, and working with the right people. I think, as the short demonstrates, it can be so fun and nice, and I think that’s really when I would do it. I recently had one line in my friend’s movie where I played a gym teacher, which is probably the job I would have if I didn’t have this job, so it was a very natural thing for me to do. So, stuff like that, I would do.
Dakota, I am a fan of your acting, and I am a big fan of Celine Song, who I know you just worked with. What can you tease people about that project and getting to work with her?
JOHNSON: am deeply in love with her as a director, as a filmmaker, as a human. I just had the most amazing time with her. I don’t know what I can say about that movie. Probably nothing. I wasn’t prepared for that question.
I don’t want to get you in trouble. I’ll just say that it could probably play at a festival at some point in the future.
JOHNSON: That would be fun. That would definitely be fun.
For people who want to see this at some point, do you have a release plan?
JOHNSON: No. [Laughs] No one will ever see it. We didn’t even know we were coming here.
You could also team up with Vimeo or a streamer.
JOHNSON: We could. Will we? Who knows? I don’t know.
So basically, it’s in its early days.
JOHNSON: It’s up for grabs, that’s for sure. You heard it here first. There’s a price.
Do you know what you’re shooting next as an actor, or do you know what’s coming up?
JOHNSON: Yes, I do. TeaTime [Productions], my company, we’re gonna make two films before the end of the year. So I’m gonna shoot them back-to-back. One is calledSplitsville. It’s with Mike Covino directing.Splitsvilleis happening as we speak.
